It was a 3:45 pm on the east side of the river . Anytime at any HP broad dot org or subscribe to our podcast search Apple podcasts Google Play or stitcher for an HP bar exchange. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. She is renowned for tracking. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist thanks very much for being here this morning really appreciate it. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Thanks for calling. But those who called the New Hampshire Fish and Game officer were told the last time a mountain lion was seen in the state was in the 1850s, and it's unlikely they have made a return. #4. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. We want answers. Caller: Absolutely. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. When they were landing or taking off and it seems like it's been there for like. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. . There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . The New Hampshire lion has become something of the state's own Big Foot, commonly discussed and rumored but never confirmed; at least, not since the 1850s, when the last mountain lion in the . No evidence and other states where Mountain lights have turned up. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. When the federal Endangered Species Act came along, the Eastern Cougar (Puma concolor cougar), the subspecies of Mountain Lon ti hat orgi inally occurred Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. He shifted gears in 2016 and began producing Outside/In, a podcast and radio show about the natural world and how we use it. His work has won him several awards, including two regional Edward R. Murrow awards, one national Murrow, and the Overseas Press Club of America's award for best environmental reporting in any medium. We're going to talk a little bit more about habitat first but then we'll get into sightings. Somewhere the way they travel the things they do they're going to leave evidence. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. So they're not afraid of humans and they'll show up like a regular housecat. Caller: And then there's the Lily Pond Road and then there's a six foot tall fence. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HP yard today we're talking about the mysterious elusive majestic Mystic Mountain Lion. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. More recently, in 2011, a mountain lion roamed Connecticut before being hit and killed by a car. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. In Vermont, it was 1881. Well thanks for sharing. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu Fish and Game then deny the evidence. After apparently trying unsuccessfully to get the young lion to leave, the man decided to shoot it. This is the exchange. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Let's look for other evidence. lewis structure for ch2cl. The next week, on June 11, the cat was hit and killed by an SUV on the Wilbur Cross Parkway in Milford. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. I'm gonna send you a letter that we researched this report and we spoke with those labs and the lab wrote in their letter to us that they could only say that Scott contained white Tea Party fur and that they could not say what deposited the scout because it's far too degraded listeners we'd love to hear from you about your mountain lion sightings if you have seen one or if you if you think you have give us a call we'd love to hear your story 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. We speculate they dont want us to screw up tourism we dont know whats going on. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. We actually have the largest subspecies of bobcat in the northern part of our state which they can get up to 40 and over 40 pounds which looks like an 80 pound the animal to visually and quite large. How far were you from this cat. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. On June 9 2021 I saw a Mountain Lion along the Connecticut river in Clarksville New Hampshire . And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. Well within there. Here it is. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof mountain lions live in the state, yet residents from Bedford to Berlin have been reporting sightings for years. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. And today we're talking about the mysterious elusive mountain line with folks who know something about it. If it's just in the middle of a greenfield you can't prove anything. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. There are corollaries in other states. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Peter Biello: Well John thanks very much for the story really appreciate it. I mean it wasn't your idea. Yes. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. So do they. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. I think that you probably are. There is some information that suggests that it spent a portion of its time in Massachusetts near the Claiborne reservoir. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. And it's not really strong. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Peter Biello: This is the exchange on an HD PR fine Peter Biello and today we're talking with folks who can tell us about the mysterious elusive mountain line and whether or not it is actually here in New Hampshire. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. Why are there so many false positives? So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. (Credit: Buddy Wilkerson via Storyful) . Yeah I did. Patrick Tate: It's wow interesting that you brought this up because I've had people report I saw cardamom. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. Peter Biello: Hmm. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. The second story window through about 30 feet away from it. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. Email exchange it an HP fraud org or give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. It's listed as population of least concern. MicroBios. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. So. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. I have one that's more elaborate than that. And there's there's no evidence of that cat's movement in that entire you know 12 hundred miles stretch of its journey. Its closest living relative is the cheetah. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. A lot of times. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. We'll be right back. So it's there was no question in my mind. Caller: So I've been telling this story for five years or so and very few people believe me. I can't. Right. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. But you can continue the conversation on Facebook or at our Web site and HP Borg. So take care of this problem. Well let's hear from from Sue Morse again science director for the organization keeping track. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. Can you tell us about that story. On a dirt road. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. The sightings have not been confirmed; in fact, there have been no confirmed mountain lion sightings in New Hampshire since one was shot and killed on the seacoast in the 1850s, said Patrick Tate . From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. for some excitement. They absolutely do. Peter Biello: Oh okay. Is this kind of a typical story. So we're fixated on natural but there's other possibilities. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. That's pretty elaborate. A young male cougar weighing about 40 pounds was shot and killed this week near Whiteclay, Nebraska. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. Your support makes this news available to everyone. The DNA the DNA that they were able to pull from the cat suggested that it was a dispersed mountain lion that came. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. And the cougar embodies that. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. "There is a very low possibility of seeing them in the. Yes. The cougar is also commonly known as mountain lion, puma, mountain cat, catamount, or panther. It was determined that Mountain Lion came from the Dakotas across the Northern part of our country . These were normal everyday folks. But before I go any further I want to say we do not have sufficient game. We're not in the woods. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. The last documented individuals in the entire Northeast were killed in New Brunswick , Canada, in 1932, and Maine in 1938. I'm Peter Biello in for Laura NOI. But if people are still seeing mountain lions, why is the state and federal government seeking to COVER IT UP!? No that's a little bit outside the range. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. Thank you very much for being here. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. I saw a mountain lion on my property in NE corner of Dutchess County about 6 years ago -- the cat (or a cat) had been spotted many times over the years and was believed to have been introduced and escaped from a nearby Hunting Preserve. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. According to the Nebraska Game and Parks report, a homeowner heard growling coming from underneath his porch while working outside. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. 50 feet above the most. The term is because mascots notwithstanding right that they're referred to with a lot of different terms and sometimes they can be confused with a lot of different terms. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. So give us a call now. Like why would you want one wildlife. They are the same thing. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. So and so they so they do get pretty involved. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. She was having a garden party on her back porch and everybody in the party saw this mountain lion across the field down below the porch. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal . People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. In Vermont, it was 1881. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. "Of those three to five reports, one. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Information online ad an age student loans dawg. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. So what those ranges. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. It's you know I recognized their report and. Thanks for your call. Caller: I do. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. Border Patrick Tate: Nice talk to you too. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. 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